I'm sorry Bird but this doesn't really justify it for me... To be a pro-athlete is to be the stuff of dreams... To be a pro-athlete is also to have a mix of those who are pompous and arrogant mixed in with those who seem approachable and downright friendly.

To have such a failed economic model in the NHL and justify it becuase of the quality of the players as people - that just doesn't justify things.

Now lets put the dirt back in it -- the players have offered two total proposals in an 18 month span, the first one 15 months before the second... And they bark about negotiating in bad faith. There are the upper-tier players who are really the ones who will benefit / hurt with the next CBA and there are the players like Mike Commodore and others (approachable, friendly, likeably players) who get screwed because fo the additional greed.

Stand pro player - it doesn't justify their stances. It doesn't justify the rift between owners and players. Sure, Bettman and the owners are just as guilty but it's impossible not to paint guilt with the Players at all.

LOL....

John,

The owners have made exactly ONE offer, 31 Mil hard cap or nothing! This coming from those who freely offered the high paying contracts that got them in this mess in the first place.

Now I have no love for the agents who tell their players to hold out while under contract....but really now, exactly what would you do if offered 8 mil to play in the NHL?

As for me.....where do I sign?

Bird

Being from a small town in canada I understand the relation to players maybe more than the southern big city boy.Alot fo my freinds have played junior hockey. However a couple of things come to mind. It's this relationship that fans used to view players as blue collar guys but now that's all changed and any empathy that was there is long gone. I still woundn't compare the greediest hockey player to a guy like sprewell but its all big business now and looking out for number 1 is the root both owners and players have chosen. Anyone of these guys that say's its about the fans is lying.

Don't you thinks its intersting how as players they try to get all they can out of management but when players turn to managemnet (clarke, gretzky, lemiuex, lowe, etc...) the shoe is on the other foot and they all of a sudden they have a different perspective.

Seeing as i currently play the greatest sport in the world and you used to as well, i can see your views, and agree with them 100% Well done Bird

being a sports writer, i have seen, spoken to and made friends with many players and i totally agree with you - ther ARE a special breed. most of them, anyway. what separates owners and players in this whole thing is that players make their living by playing hockey while owners USE players to get (often not the main part of) their income. remember, loosing money is not always a bad thing. sometimes it is a very valuable write-off. all depends on how much the parent company made, of course. and also - if it wasn't good for them, wouldn't they be selling their teams left and right? every team that goes on sale gets bought. even ones that go bankrupt! so you think people who already have made millions and millions of dollars are so stupid that they go buy themselves a money-drain?

Bird;

You do present an interesting case. However, you failed to mention another side of this lockout. What about players going overseas and taking non NHL players livlihood away in order to earn a few extra bucks? What about the Cory Hirsh's of the world who have struggled just as much as current NHLers , but because they are not as talented or maybe even other circumstances, could not make it in North America. We have been rooting for them as well, maybe even more so because they have sacrificed leaving their country and culture in persuing their dream to play hockey. Now since the NHLer's are available for a few months, the Hirsh-like players must put their entire life on hold and make ends meat, all the while the NHLer's are hauling in two paychecks, one from Europe and one from the warchest. So when you present the hockey players as great guys, don't forget one thing, at the end of the day the MIGHTY DOLLAR runs this world.

Money talks and bullshit walks.

Tough As Nails

Tough As Nails, if (God forbid!) owner of the company you work for (who hired you and was telling you at the time that he needs you and you are his MVP and blah-blah-blah...) forced you to take leave of absense for a year, and some company from another state offered you a contract that gives you less money, but lets you make decent living while your regular job can't pay, would you worry about YOUR living or some other guy who might be forced out because you are better than him professionally?

SK;

You're comparing apples to oranges. OK under your philosophy, I'm making $5 mil per year running a successful corporation. I am asked to take a leave of absence (all the while recieving a compensation, and all the while knowing I will eventually go back to my current $5 mil per year salary). I decide I want to run the local cornerstore because I want to remian busy while on absence. I put the local grocer, a 30 year old single mom, out of a job, and denying them their only income. MY LIVING would be fine without the extra $10/hr but due to my greed I still decide to put the grocer out of a job.

My point was to show that both the players and owners are greedy. Both of them are looking out for number one, so there's no need to put the players on a pedistal while begruding the owners. And from your comments I believe I've achieved that.

Its often said here that the owners signed the contracts so they have to live by them. Well now the owners are rufusing to increase salaries but all of a sudden the players don't like it. The players must realize its a two way street and if they don't like it well they can take their game elsewhere, perhaps to Europe, since many of them are so fond of it.

I think many would respond with the old saying "It's a nice place to visit, I just wouldn't want to live there". Unfortunately some players like Hirsh don't have the option.

Tough As Nails

"Well now the owners are refusing to increase salaries but all of a sudden the players don't like it." - Nails

That's not true. The owners could have done that without a lockout. This is not about refusing to increase salaries....it's about a huge reduction in salaries and an attempt to make sure every owner no matter how poorly he runs his team, still makes a profit.

Look, I'm sure there are players who are in this just for the money....that still doesn't change what I wrote.

And this example about Hirsh is just plain silly. Cory went there and took a spot from a kid, now someone has taken his, that's the nature of sports. Maybe Hirsh should stop more pucks. Here's a clip from a debate on Hirsh from our boards.....

"The funny thing is, not that Corey Hirsch is from Medicine Hat, but that Martin Gerber IS from Switzerland! In my opinion, Gerber has MORE of a right to be playing there than Hirsch ... AND he's a better goalie!!! What a joke."

BTW: Nails...where ya been? I enjoy your posts even when I don't agree with them. Post here any time eh!

----}-

Bird

I totally agree with you here only I do so because of those who came before this current group of players but also for those who will come in the future.

It is common knowledge that the NHL has not been 100% honest in discussing their true accounting practices. Why in the world should anyone believe owners who own their own arenas, own their own tv channels and control just about every aspect of the money their franchise makes?

NOT ONCE have I seen the NHL say that part of their supposed problems with losing money has to do with poor business practices like we have all witnessed by the Rangers.

Not once have I seen any NHL franchise be sold for less than it was purchased for.

Yet we the fans are repeatedly told that the NHL is in serious trouble. If it is then the blame has to start with the NHL leadership not the NHLPA.